This article was submitted by Grant Norman. If you would like to submit your own content, please email AmerikanerContributions@proton.me
As the open war between Russia and Ukraine enters its second year, that conflict has again taken a prominent stage in both mainstream American politics and dissident discussions. Often, a familiar pattern plays out as arguments are exchanged, tempers flare, and the prospect of understanding seems farther away than ever. One of the chief stumbling blocks between the two sides of the debate is that the dissident debate over the Russia-Ukraine War has been obscured by the misrepresentation of half of the argument, namely the half which most Heritage Americans in the Heartland hold to.
This misrepresentation has been done willfully by bad actors in the media and unintentionally by those who would otherwise be ideological allies. To have an honest debate on the conflict, those arguing must understand not only their own position but that of their debate partner. Simply put, the idea that the debate is between equivalent “pro-Ukraine” and “pro-Russia” positions is false. There is no pro-Russian constituency of any size or note in American politics. What the real choice boils down to is overt support of Ukraine in its struggle against Russia, or staying out of the conflict altogether.
While there are plenty eager to send American tax dollars, weapons, and even lives to eastern Europe to stop the Russians, there is no one, outside of a few cranks, arguing that the American people should support Russia with a fraction of what has been showered upon the Ukrainians. The choice facing Amerikaners is whether to continue or expand support to Ukraine, or to remain neutral. The current government has made it clear which policy it prefers, but the attitudes of ordinary citizens can make it easier or harder for them to pursue their chosen course, which is why so much time and money has been sunk into propagandizing the war for American audiences.
This is not the first time that this choice has been faced.
During both World Wars, before the United States became directly involved in the conflict, the Midwest was a hotbed of noninterventionism, lambasted as “isolationism” then as it is now. Americans held to the spirit of George Washington’s farewell address, and sought to avoid becoming entangled in European conflicts which held no benefit for ordinary Americans but the loss of life and limb.
Then, as now, this mood was contrary to that of the central government. Aided by the efforts and strident propaganda of British agents, the war party attempted to hammer down Midwestern resistance to overseas conflict by destroying German-Americans lives and communities, spreading absurd stories of atrocities committed by Great Britain’s continental foes, and even interfering in the 1940 election to ensure a pro-war outcome. Brave men and women like Charles Lindbergh, the greatest Minnesotan who ever lived, gave voice to the fears and concerns of ordinary Americans and were roundly demonized as disloyal, un-American, crazy, and evil. “Those who wanted to stay out of the war really wanted to help the Germans!” was the argument which was spread in movie theaters, university lecture halls, and over the radio with deadly seriousness.
Then, as now, the proponents of war decided that Americans did not deserve the choice they really wanted. They were not allowed to pursue the policy of peace which they really wanted. Instead, the champions of American blood and treasure being squandered in Europe had to lie about what they were arguing against. Because they knew that if given an honest choice, their warmongering would have been roundly rejected. And so, Charles Lindbergh, the great American hero of the 1920’s, became a Nazi stooge, the bogeyman of jewish fears of a fascist America even to this day. Millions of German- and Irish-Americans were accused of harboring a secret loyalty to the land of their ancestors, while the motives of baying Czechs, Poles, jews, and Englishmen in the country were never treated with such scrutiny.
Fears were spread of the threat the anti-interventionist movements and their supporters posed to “democracy” despite their popularity, while the war party joined arms with the Communists in the rush to commit American lives and wealth to the abattoir.
Then, as now.
If you wish to have the debate over American policy and attitudes toward the Russia-Ukraine War, by all means, have the discussion. But it is counterproductive to refuse to engage with your real opponent and instead paint those with real concerns into the bogeyman of your imagination. Not everyone who doesn’t want the United States to continue to prop up a failing second-world kleptocracy is a cheerleader of Vladimir Putin. Many people who refuse to take sides in the ongoing conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians, also argue that in Eastern Europe you are either with Ukraine or with Russia, with no nuance allowed.
Enough!
Do not tell people what they believe, do not ascribe to them motives which they do not possess. Treat them with respect and you may have more luck persuading them. And for those holding fast to the noninterventionist line, take heart and learn the lessons of the past. Too many Americans have died for too little over our people’s history to go along without a fight.
#“the war party joined arms with the Communists in the rush to commit American lives and wealth to the abattoir. Then, as now.“ –
All too true. – Ordinary people everywhere who are in favor of a policy of peace need to make it clear that they reject and do not support the US “wars of intervention“, the US meddling in affairs which are not theirs, and always made things much worse!
We all have to engage with the real opponents. – Yes, definitely. –
It does not happen on TV! Jewish propaganda has always been pro-war. Nobody in the political arena – Putin included – mentions the JEWISH ROLE in creating all the wars. Putin keeps barking up the wrong tree blaming “the West“ and keeps chasing “Nazis“ in the Ukraine (“de-Nazification“ = to crush all Ukrainian sovereignty?), not mentioning with a single word that the US, UK, EU, and NATO are all under US-JEWISH CONTROL! Ashkenazis, National Zionists are the elephant in the room…
In order to put an end to the slaughter we need to name the real enemies!
Who has always been the real enemy of the Ukrainians?
In the 20th century: the Jewish Communists took over Russia in 1917, US-Jewish coup d’etat, falsely called “Russian Revolution“, tens of millions of Russian orthodox Christians were murdered! Stalin ordered the starvation of about 11 million Ukrainians by confiscating virtually all they needed for survival! – In the 21st century: US-Zionist Jews took over the Ukraine in 2014, US-Jewish coup d’etat – anti-Ukrainian, anti-Russian Zionist puppets were installed to provoke Russia into war. A Russian-Ukrainian war to kill as many Ukrainians as possible! “Ethnic cleansing“ / Ukrainian genocide! The Ukrainians are hopelessly overpowered! The outcome is very much predictable. The same as with the Germans in WWII (and WWI, as soon as the US came in).
FEEDING THE BEAST (Ziolensky – US-Jewish – Israhellish regimes) with billions of US dollars and more arms for more war does not really help the Ukrainians! And certainly not the Palestinians either! The longer the slaughter lasts the higher the loss of lives, land and resources will be!!! As always, the Jews in power do not want peace. They have planned wars of contrition, they provoked the wars, and have certain goals they want to reach…
#“And to those holding fast to the non-interventionist line… Too many Americans have died for too little over our people’s history to go along without a fight.“
Meaning what? – Firm further support for all the US “wars of intervention“? Past, present and future? US wars of aggression against Germany (by intervening in the European conflict in 1917, again in 1941ff), Vietnam, Korea, etc – Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Jemen, etc – Ukraine – Palestine. Wars against nations that have never posed any real threat to America’s safety!
OR opposition against? Active anti-war resistance?
The crux is – America has been fighting wars for most of its existence, and Americans keep fighting the wrong enemies! The vast majority of Americans shy away from naming the true enemy – Lindbergh was an exceptional hero, among others. As a result they keep fighting and dying for the wrong causes.
Fighting all the Zionist wars for Jewish power and supremacy has never been in America’s best interest.
“As the open war between Russia and Ukraine enters its second year, that conflict has again taken a prominent stage in both mainstream American politics and dissident discussions. … Simply put, the idea that the debate is between eqivalent “pro-Ukraine“ and “pro-Russia“ positions is false.“ (Norman Grant)
Definitely! – a solution can only be found if BOTH POSITIONS are taken into consideration!
“There is no pro-Russian constituency of any size or note in American politics“ (NG)
It goes without saying that a US-JEWISH ZIONIST government (ZOG-Demonrats) is pro-war and anti-Russian (Ukraine conflict), anti-Palestinian (Gaza conflict), anti-Iranian, anti-China… because these are the wars the Jews in power want to have… and escalate (into WWIII)! They put more and more pressure on their puppets (Macron, Rothschild stooge/France and Scholz, “Bilderberger“/WEF stooge/Germany, who repeatedly gets treated in the most humiliating way in Washington and Israhell) to put boots on the ground…
PAUKENSCHLAG: Scholz unter Schock – Macron kann sich Ukraine-Einsatz von eigenen Truppen vorstellen – YouTube
SCHOLZ UNDER SHOCK – Macron promotes French soldiers/NATO soldiers for the Ukraine
THE JEWS IN POWER WANT TO PULL IN NATO EVEN MORE!!!
They want NATO-soldiers fighting in the Ukraine – a TOTAL NO GO as far as PUBLIC OPINION IN GERMANY/EUROPE is concerned. The vast majority of EUROPEANS ARE FED UP WITH ALL THESE ZIONIST WARS! Jewish schemes to steal more land, more resources, more… more… for more Jewish power! – WE ARE NOT AT WAR WITH RUSSIA!!!
And the ordinary Americans in the Midwest?
They do not understand how justified the Russian position is?
In that case, Amerikaners would not mind at all if California or even Texas entered into an ECONOMIC & MILITARY UNION WITH CHINA? – Normally, the US government in Washington DC would find that unacceptable – but ZOG is different!!! ZOG is anti-white American and promotes open borders… “diversity“… Chinese and all kinds of people are constantly being brought in… – The Russians have a pro-Russian government! Hence, the Ukraine joining EU & NATO is unacceptable to Russia. The most serious safety concerns. Totally justified.
“What the real choice boils down to is overt support for Ukraine in its struggle against Russia, or staying out of the conflict altogether“ (NG) – Really?
“Overt support for Ukraine“ in US-ZOG politics means:
MORE BILLIONS wasted on FEEDING THE BEAST, the ANTI-UKRAINIAN war mongering, degenerate ZIOlensky regime – MORE ARMS wasted in a war only the US JEWISH ZIONIST war profiteers are benefitting from – MORE WAR among white Ukrainians and Russians who better should not fight and kill each other – WHITE GENOCIDE – MORE LOSS OF LIVES on both sides – MORE DESTRUCTION in all parts of the country – Up until now the devastation is mostly in the east and the south –
If the war escalates, spreading more and more to the west – the whole country will be ruined, bombed into rubble!!! The civilian population left to starve and die in the hundreds of thousands. Many more children orphaned, hunted by predators.
EXACTLY WHAT THE JEWS IN POWER WANT. UKRAINIAN GENOCIDE. More room for Jews…Six million+ returning to the JEWISH PALE OF SETTLEMENT – to establish a “Greater Israhell“2.0 /Khasaria 2.0 – JEWISH HEGEMONY from the Baltic Sea, all the way down to the Black Sea, the Mediterranean Sea, to the Indian Pacific…
Are Americans aware of that? – DO NOT FEED THE BEAST! (should be the reminder) – DO NOT SUPPORT THE ZIONIST WARS/PLANS! – THE BEAST IS ABOUT TO DEVOUR US ALL.
“or staying out of the conflict altogether“ (Norman Grant)
Hardly an option for Americans now – considering the fact that the Russian-Ukrainian war was fomented/provoked by a US-Jewish Ukrainian government (since 2014).
Americans have to take a clear position pro or contra the TERRORIST JEWISH ZIONIST REGIMES in Washington DC, the Ukraine and Israhell. Overt support to all of them – a smart choice?
I wonder if Midwest Amerikaners mostly choose to take the official (virtue signalling) position: “We have to give our full support to the Ukrainians!“ Totally ignoring the fact that this means: BOMB UKRAINE INTO RUBBLE! As is always the result if ZOG in power get what they want…
Or if Midwest Amerikaners are mostly promoters of peace, demanding diplomatic solutions from Washington DC. Putting pressure on ZOG by DEMANDING PEACE! PRONTO! To reduce the damage already done…
“Those who wanted to stay out of the war really wanted to help the Germans!“ (NG)
Nothing was wrong with helping/understanding the Germans. Nothing was wrong with doing the right thing. The Germans were forced to fight a war of self defence. They wanted the Jews TO LEAVE Germany and Europe. Totally justified. – Jewish atrocity propaganda is lies. Now, and then. The Zionists /World Jewry had declared a WAR OF EXTERMINATION against the German people – Their “unforgivable crime“: self-defense.
Equally you can say: “Those who want to stay out of the Russian-Ukrainian war want to understand both the Ukrainian and Russian position – and find a diplomatic solution for both“
Nothing is wrong with that either. I strongly prefer that choice – and it does not make you a “cheerleader of Putin“, not at all! Tucker Carlson did not ask any of the hard hitting questions Putin should be confronted with. Putin knows much better than he pretended to…
#On how to communicate – American vs German differences (directness – no beating around the bush)
I am sorry to say I have difficulties in understanding the article. Let me explain… quotes:
1 -“misrepresentation of half of the argument, namely the half which MOST Heritage Americans in the Heartland hold to“ (Norman Grant)– – –
WHICH IS WHAT? – – – What do you mean by “false choice“ (headline)? Do you mean it is NOT simply a choice between “You are either with Ukraine (no matter what) OR with Russia (no matter what)“? I agree to that. – Though I miss clarity in the representation as a whole, and feel quite frustrated, confused; there is some contradiction in it (ergo: 4th comment)
2 – “To have an honest debate on the conflict those arguing must understand not only their own position but that of their debate partner“ (NG)- – –
Exactly! Agreed. – – – But do Heritage Americans in the Heartland actually understand the Russian position, how totally justified it is? (as mentioned before) Do they understand that what is called the “Ukrainian position“ is in fact NOT Ukrainian at all, and does NOT serve the best interests of the Ukrainians!!! – To the contrary: It is the position of the ANTI-UKRAINIAN US-ZIONIST JEWS (currently Ziolensky actor playing the role of warlord) who took over the Ukraine government in 2014, in a bloody coup d’etat!!! NOT (in reality) to represent Ukrainian interests but JEWISH INTERESTS / PLANS (as mentioned before)!
THE US-ZIONIST ISRAHELLISH JEWS know perfectly well that Ukraine joining EU and NATO must be totally unacceptable to Russia!!!! That is exactly the very reason why they broke all agreements with Russia and moved NATO right next to Russia’s borders!!!– THE JEWS IN POWER WANT NATO & THE US IN OPEN WAR WITH RUSSIA!!! – and that is why they keep pushing the escalation!!! THE JEWISH WARMONGERS DO NOT WANT PEACE!!! The same as in 1916, and 1940 – ZIONIST JEWS pushed for the escalation of the European war but keep blaming the targeted nation: Germany! Now the JEWISH WAR PROPAGANDA is blaming Russia! Russia did not start the war, Russia was provoked to invade – as was Hitler‘s Germany!!!
3 – “What the real choice boils down to is overt support for Ukraine in its struggle against Russia, or staying out of the conflict altogether“ (NG)
Do you actually want to say that not most? – but “most” (1st paragraph)/ “plenty“ of Heritage Americans in the Heartland make the “real“ choice (FALSE imho) to effectively join the WAR PARTY!!! (ONCE AGAIN – never learning from history?) The war party of the TERRORIST US JEWISH ZIONIST WAR HAWKS in Washington DC (District of Criminals – Demonrats or Republicans – no difference), of Ziolensky and Netanyahu? By giving “overt support“ for the ZIONIST WAR AGAINST RUSSIA ???
Do you actually want to say that “not most” but “plenty“ of Heritage Americans in the Heartland are that much IN DENIAL OF REALITY that they are NOT aware of, do NOT want to know, do NOT care what the virtue signalling “overt support for Ukraine“ ACTUALLY means???
“Staying out of the conflict altogether“ (NG)
is NO OPTION for Americans! You have never been neutral!!! You are too much involved!!! You have a “democratic“ US-JEWISH government which is (contrary to the Jewish war propaganda lies) originally responsible (Obama Admin) for the whole conflict and war, and another one (Biden Admin) keeps pushing for WWIII!!!
Americans as well as Europeans HAVE TO MAKE A CLEAR CHOICE between a position FOR the Jewish Zionists in Washington DC, Ukraine and Israhell, the Zionist wars and Jew World Order plans OR a position AGAINST!!! You are either in favor of WAR (self-destruction) OR in favor of PEACE NEGOTIATIONS (survival)!!! The latter not even mentioned in the American discourse?
In an election year there is no real debate going on (not on this blog either). The real opponents are not even mentioned.