In this week’s episode, SuperLutheran and Myles are joined by friend of the show Presby_Ayatollah to discuss Presbyterianism. The history, the doctrine, and the current state of the denomination.
Are Jews the chosen people of God? No: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzHB5Caglgo
Age of Ruin: From the Ashes: https://poa.st/@Godcast/posts/ALVRT05jJfK3me3PtY
The first of what I hope to be many entries in a science fiction universe both by and for /ourguys/.
Things we talked about this episode:
Presbyterianism: https://infogalactic.com/info/Presbyterianism
Our break music for this episode was Rock of Ages, Cleft for Me.
Download this Episode: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/thegodcast/Godcast_241.mp3
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If you have questions about the Christian faith or just want to get in touch with us, we can be reached at TheGodcast@Protonmail.com
If you’d like to support the Godcast and/or The Very Lutheran Project, you can do so here: https://verylutheran.gumroad.com/
Myles and Super can be found improving timelines on the Fediverse here:
poa.st/@Godcast
poa.st/@SuperLutheran
Pugnus Pastorem
Godcast,
if it’s not inconvenient, would you mind filling out a brief questionnaire? Thank you in advance.
I. The Scripture is about the non-Gentiles.
a) true
b) false
c) other
II. The Scripture is written by the non-Gentiles.
a) true
b) false
c) other
III. The Gentiles should follow the Scripture because
a) it’s the tradition of non-Gentiles
b) there will be harsh punishments if they don’t (and they’ll miss out on posthumous rewards!)
c) other.
Thank you, I really appreciate it.
Would you like to dispute Christianity on factual grounds? I don’t know anyone who isn’t aware that the Bible is a record of jews being awful.
While you’re here, can you answer my questionaire? It’s only a single question:
“I reject Christianity because…”
a) “I’m a homosexual or some other kind of sexual deviant.”
b) “I have an irrational hatred of my father.”
c) “both of the above.”
I’m looking forward to your response.
You have not given an option d), other.
Pedantic note, if constructing questionnaires make at least a token effort to choose mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive options.
Re: A) on Kinsey scale of deviancy, a solid 0. Married to 1st wife and faithful for 24 years and no plans to change. Homos are repugnant no matter the angle viewed from.
Re: B) I’ve held my father’s hand as he died almost 8 years ago at 82. For the last 14 years of his life, he lived at my sister’s and my houses. Dementia’s a b**ch. Changed diapers, inserted IV shunts, drove him to dialysis. Nope, no hatred towards him.
Your childish response is disappointing, but by no means rare. There is an old saying “people on the inside of the cult will always choose to lash out at dissent rather than take a hard honest look at their own predicament”.
My mother was a 10 on hard-core Christian “scale of my own”. She went first, big C. Dad was a 7 and way more mellow on seeing through the antics of the local Christ Underwriter. I plainly told them “I am incapable of doing that” when I was 15 and left as soon as I could. The rift was patched up a couple of decades later, but it was my own parents who were hostile and frightened for my soul’s soft landing. (I still am not).
I do not want to dispute Christianity on factual grounds as I see no point to such a session. I would not want to debate with Rev. Dr. “Martin” Luther King Jr. either. Most of his output was appropriated without giving credit, and so is the very case with the itinerant preacher/carpenter/gill netter from Upper Galilee, Yeshua.
You have not heard of “The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors”. The case about how repetitive/unoriginal the basic model is needs not be re-iterated as you will never examine it.
Acknowledge at least how crowded the soul-saving industry is. The initial outlay to start is ridiculously low. All you need to do is to amass the flock, which you will then lead to spiritual safety with the shepherd’s crook and words of great wisdom, and collect their wool, mutton, and an occasional lamb for your thankless trouble.
The Bible is like The Bottle. I know the active ingredients in it. Ignorance, gullibility, fear, pressure, freakouts when scrutinized. I also know all too bitterly well what happens when you imbibe from this concoction, ostensibly hated by the kvetching bottle merchant, but deep down inside he’s OK with it, because it serves the long game’s objective.
The Merchant likes to read from R to L. He’s too special to serve some God. He has a better deal (opposite of what he wants you to do): God directly serves him. A typical merchanty switcheroo.
“Oh what a fool is the man” mused some old Frenchman “who cannot make a worm, and yet makes Gods by the dozen”.
One giant W for Yeshua was taking the whip to the moneychangers/sacrificial animal peddlers in the temple. There is, I fear, a strong correlation coefficient b/n messing up with financial services lobby and a soon following gruesome demise that is a “teachable moment” for the remaining undecided. I wonder how would Yeshua react to entering any large temple, Catholic, Protestant, LDS or any adjacent. But it’s like pondering what, say, Thanos would do. He only does what’s good for The Merchant and his abiding lesson to you.
The Bible was imposed on me w/o any expectation of my consent. The Bottle I have rejected on my own. Who wins if you imbibe? You? How exactly? May I have such a victory itemized, in bullet points? You don’t have to show it, but do start a list on a 3×5″ card sometime.
I am not hostile to you, your podcast, Gordon’s website, etc. I will never tell you to stop or listen to me, a stranger whom you already clumsily attempted to insult.
I am asking you to have a good defensible reason for any decision.
Have yourself a good’un.
AGoodGentile
PS. if you have not already sussed out the autism levels, I am an IT drone. If I stood up at Monday staff meeting and said “we should NEVER test the security of our network with pentesting because a) it is SUPASTRONK already b) we are deviants and c) we hate our fathers” I’d be escorted to a brief summary session at HR Dept. But here I go, blathering about rational approaches to people who pride themselves on already having won.
“The Bible is like The Bottle. I know the active ingredients in it. Ignorance, gullibility, fear, pressure, freakouts when scrutinized.”
You say that as if the Bible hasn’t been probably the most heavily scrutinized literary work in human history and hasn’t been consistently been found reliable by the standards of any historical document.
“I also know all too bitterly well what happens when you imbibe from this concoction”
Not to sound like a dick, but you were never one of us [Christians].
From what I gathered, you were dragged to church as a kid and didn’t want to go anymore as a teenager. Without the ability to read your mind, this was probably not whatever profound spiritual enlightenment that you may think it was.
“The Bible was imposed on me w/o any expectation of my consent. The Bottle I have rejected on my own. Who wins if you imbibe? You? How exactly? May I have such a victory itemized, in bullet points? You don’t have to show it, but do start a list on a 3×5″ card sometime.”
Again, not to be a dick, but this is weapons grade, fedora tipping autism
>I do not want to dispute Christianity on factual grounds as I see no point to such a session.
Here’s your L.
>You have not heard of “The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors”. The case about how repetitive/unoriginal the basic model is needs not be re-iterated as you will never examine it.
Sounds like nonsense on the level of Dawkins or Skirbina that no actual New Testament historian takes seriously. Oh, geez, a quick look at the wikipedia page says the author is a Jesus mythicst. That’s how you know you’re dealing with profound ignorance: denying the simple existence of Jesus of Nazareth. Got any other reliable, citable sources, champ?
>The Bible is like The Bottle. I know the active ingredients in it. Ignorance, gullibility, fear, pressure, freakouts when scrutinized.
You can’t even find a resource that’s historically valid, I very sincerely doubt you understand Christian doctrine. Interesting how you insist Christians “freak out” when scrutinized. We have a 2,000 year history of philosophy and apologetics that has yet to be refuted. I’ll remind you that it’s YOU, not me, that refuses to discuss Christianity on factual grounds, i.e. actually scrutinize Christianity.
>The Bible was imposed on me w/o any expectation of my consent.
Oh, no, a libertarian. Didn’t you people go extinct when your ideology got taken over by faggots?
>The Bottle I have rejected on my own.
From a place of demonstrably profound ignorance.
>Who wins if you imbibe? You? How exactly? May I have such a victory itemized, in bullet points?
I reign and rule with Christ for all eternity. What tangible good does rejecting the Gospel do me?
>a stranger whom you already clumsily attempted to insult.
You want to get snippy with me, I’m going to get snippy right back, chief. You want to start throwing around accusations of jewry, I’m going to call you a faggot. Simple as.
>Simple as.
Nothing wrong with simple. The simpler the clearer, oftentimes.
Allegory tale:
After long walk past security check-in, I finally arrive at gate D89 where my flight takes off from. Flight overbooked as usual and a long line of resigned stand-by people from cancelled flights.
CNN monitor above has a captivating story of eyewitness to atrocities and war crimes. Irene O’Shaughnessy tells the rapt and mortified audience about rows of pedal driven brain bashing machines, cages with bears and eagles that ripped Mr. Riordan and 5 big emeralds her mother left her. These emeralds were, shall we say, hidden and unhidden repeatedly via communal sanitation facility with thousands of very ill people around.
With a sense of deja vu, I mention to the sobbing passenger “the story seems recycled”.
The guy says “you are a hater because you are a faggot and hate your father, or both”.
Me: “not true, you are being lied to by a team of congenital liars, and this ancient crude lie is absurd”.
Other guy “my entire family wept after hearing the testimony of O’Shaughnessy, and we FedExed her all our pearls because it was the right thing to do and everyone we know sent her their entire savings and deeds to their houses. That brave hero survived so much sufferink”.
Me, resigned “I am sure they did”.
More booing and hissing from the crowd.
“No serious scholar ever questioned the veracity of the O’Shaughnessy claims. They are rows of thick books written by experts who devoted lifetimes to the matter. What’s next, you’re going to doubt the existence of bears, eagles and emeralds?”
“Get a load of this libertarian! My grandpa served in the Marines with a guy named Riordan. Okinawa is real”
Early Christians had to have known that “Paul” was a mimicry, a pseudonym. It sounded “better” for the role. His deadname was actually a stereotype-fitting Saul. Nevermind the whys and wherefores. There is a St. Paul’s Cathedral (I have been there). There is no brass plate disclaimer “Paul = really Saul”. None of the people who derive great strength and spiritual nourishment from the edifice seem to care.
“It’s there. It is magnificent. 12 generations of my ancestors are buried in the basement. It is our heritage. You saw all the gold on the mantle? We put it there even when times were tough. You are nothing but a (edited for repetitiveness).”
Me: “Irene Zisblatt”
You: “Everyone knows about Irene Zisblatt, so what? all you can do now is get snippy, chief”
I have a serious question, it is also quite simple and hopefully you will find it clear.
Give me your spiritual advice as conscious, deliberate followers of Christ.
What is the reward for playing along with a CNN story?
I did not volunteer for autism duty. Seems harsh to rip me for it, but it is always easier to change the topic for you, o healthy ones.
>I very sincerely doubt you understand Christian doctrine.
Here is the way I see it:
(in the prequel)
The Creator of Universe has been offended by the moral failures of his creations. He drowned them with universal flood, one guy fled on a wooden escape pod but once the Earth repopulated, the old wickedness returned.
(Enter the New Testament).
The most perfect human being is sent to then Palestine. Starts in a manger, walks around, teaches the multitudes and performs marvelous physics-defying feats.
(Regrettably, 18 years is missing from the CV, a real shame).
The most perfect sacrificial lamb is then railroaded in a sham of the court trial (with wicked locals demanding the acquittal of the bandit who bodily harmed tax collectors just doing their job).
There is an execution, death and then the protagonist regains the life!
Now, we all have to make the simple choice.
Accept the blood sacrifice with all the consequences and then all will be hopefully OK.
You will be righteous and rewarded.
The alternative is eternal lake of everlasting fire, without the possibility of parole. You done effed up for realz this time.
Which is terrifying to even think of.
How am I doing so far? Any omissions or misunderstandings?
Shorter version:
Just as it is possible to repay a $1,000 credit card debt someone incurred by a funding source from , it is possible to atone for crimes and high misdemeanors by blood sacrifice of someone who committed none of these, a spotless lamb.
All you need to do is to put your trust in the model.
True? False? Other?
I do not recall the exact Omar Khayiam quote, but it says to the effect “often the unbeliever knows the Q’ran quite well”.
>I reign and rule with Christ for all eternity.
Wow.
>What tangible good does rejecting the Gospel do me?
For once, you can really identify as someone who respectfully declined on opening an investment account with the famous well-connected and successful expert on the field of finance, Bernard Madoff.
Choices yield consequences.
Someone should probably inform PCUSA that “total depravity” isn’t supposed to be something to strive for
@AGoodGentile
>Allegory tale:
What does any of that have to do with anything? You mentioned the story of what I’m assuming is the Gospel “seeming recycled.” Not to be too mean, but that’s because you haven’t done enough digging. The same thing can be said about the biographies of Abraham Lincoln and John F Kennedy (both Chicagoites, lawyers, wartime presidents, etc). Nobody would claim JFK is just a copy of the Abraham Lincoln myth. And similarities in biographies can be, and are, used to drive at a point.
>Early Christians had to have known that “Paul” was a mimicry, a pseudonym.
It was actually just what people called him at the time: https://www.gotquestions.org/Saul-Paul.html
>You: “Everyone knows about Irene Zisblatt (etc)”
You’re conflating two comments I made. Irene Zisblatt isn’t a reliable historical source for information about Jesus and her “scholarship” doesn’t even rise to the level of jokes like Richard Carrier. Carrier, for instance, can’t seem to read the parts of Paul’s epistles where he says “this letter was written by my scribe,” so he insists Paul is like four different people.
The comment you’re mixing in with that is me telling you that if you get mouthy, i’m going to get mouthy back. If you call me a jew, I’m going to call you a retard.
>Here is the way I see it:
Some nuggets of understanding, but mostly wrong.
>The most perfect human being is sent to then Palestine.
Jesus is God, not merely a “perfect human being.” He preaches the coming of the Kingdom of God and reconciliation between God and man. As for years missing, it’s actually not: Luke 2:51: “Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart.” In other words, He was a good son who did what His parents told him, and probably worked in his father’s business. Not so much “missing” as “irrelevant to the point of the Gospels.”
>Accept the blood sacrifice with all the consequences and then all will be hopefully OK.
You are *guaranteed* to be OK.
>Which is terrifying to even think of.
Very much so, which is why you should accept Christ.
>For once, you can really identify as someone who respectfully declined on opening an investment account with the famous well-connected and successful expert on the field of finance, Bernard Madoff.
Not sure what you’re driving at, tbh.